Author: Dentice, Luigi
Title: Dialogues on music, Second Dialogue
Original Title: Dialoghi della Musica, Dialogo Secondo
Source: Florence, Biblioteca del Conservatorio ‘Luigi Cherubini’, MS B3797, f.25r-35v
[-f.25r-] Dialogue Second part. [-f.25v-] On practice SERONE,. I waited for you here for two long hours. Where do you come from so full of excitement and marvel? Soardo. From the house of the most divine Signora Donna Giouanna of Aragon. Serone. Now I stop marvelling at your marvelling. Soardo. Why? Serone. Because Signora donna Giouanna and divine Signora donna Vittoria Colonna, her daughter, were created by nature as a marvel for the world. Soardo. It is so, but my wonder is caused by something else. Serone. What is it? Soardo. By the music that I heard in that very house. Serone. Is it possible that, as you are not blind and were in presence of such sight that you were able to operate the other senses? Soardo. On the contrary, it is entirely possible, because those ladies attracted by such harmony were so intent on their music, that they appeared transformed, more, they became transfigured into the music itself. Serone. Wonderful. Who were the musicians and what sort of music was it? Soardo. The musicians were Messer Giovanlonardo dell'Harpa, from Naples, Messer Perino from Florence, Messer Battista, from Sicily and Messer Giaches from Ferrara. Serone. I have heard all of them seveal times and it is certain that, in my opinion, each of them is the greatest player of their own instrument. Soardo. You tell the truth. The singers were Signor Giulio Cesare Brancazzo, Signor Francesco Bisballe, count di Briatico, Messer Scipione del Palla et someone else who sang the soprano part and whom I did not like very much, but who was bearable because the other voices were so good. Serone. There is no doubt that it must have been a beautiful and such that was never heard before because the three who you have mentioned to me are the most accomplished musicians and their singing is miraculously good. Soardo. There is no argument about that. Serone. Are you allowed to say who the soprano [-f.26r-] was? Soardo. No, I am sorry. Suffice to say that I did not like him, because there are few musicians who sing accompanied by instruments, as far as I heard them, that have pleased me completely. Serone. Why? Soardo. Because they are all deficient in something, whether it be intonation, pronunciation, singing itself, ornamentation or in softening and increasing the volume of the voice according to the necessity to do so. These are skills that are partly innate and partly the result of study and artistic application. Serone. If you consider them thus, you will find nobody you like. Soardo. On the contrary, I would, but I like the good ones, and, since it is not right to praise who makes mistakes erra, thus it would be also unjust not to praise those who deserve it. Serone. Would you have liked Signora Vittoria Fagiola, who shunned the world and abandoned it for heaven to sing with the angels? Soardo. Of course, I liked her very much indeed, and Signora Donna Maria di Cardona, marquess of the Padula, who is such a clear example of every virtue in our age, while the former was in her service, loved her as it were her daughter for no other reason but to become familiar and close to the good customs and suave voice of that young woman, the like of whom has never been heard again since. Serone. Did you like any others? Soardo. Another two, but do let us leave these aside and let us return to yesterday's topic of discussion. Serone. It will be best to do so. Soardo. You must know that we must consider four sorts of intervals in any composition. Two of them are called perfect and two are called imperfect. The fifth and the octave are the perfect ones while the third and the sixth are the imperfect ones. The third can be minor or major. [-f.26r-] When it is minor it is called semiditone, because it consists of two tones. For instance, from gammaut to Bemi there are two tones, hence it will be a major third. From bemi to dsolre there is a tone and a minor semitone, hence it shall be called a minor third. The fifth is formed from these two imperfect intervals, because from gammaut to dsolre there are five notes and four intervals, which contain three tones and a minor semitone, and bemi, which is the note in the centre of the fifth, is in common between the ditone and the semiditone. If another note is added to this, the sixth will be formed, as it contains six notes and five intervals. If it contains four tones and a minor semitone, it will be called major sixth, [it constitutes a sixth because it contains six notes and five intervals, it will be called major sixth, but, the intervals are three tones and tow minor semitones, it will be called minor sixth, and if two notes are added to it, the octave will be created, which, although it is the most in marg.] and, if two other intervals are added to it, the octave shall be created, which, although it is the most perfect of the consonances, nevertheless, if it is joined with an imperfect one, the whole result will be an imperfect interval, but, if it is joined with a fifth or another octave, the result will be called a perfect consonance. Similarly, if the fifth is joined with the minor third, the result will not be a perfect consonance, but, if it is joined with a perfect one, it will be. Serone. Can you clarify which compounded consonances are perfect and which ones are imperfect? [-f.27r-] più chiaro? Soardo. I will. The octave joined with the ditone or with the semiditone is a tenth, and it is an imperfect consonance, which can consist of sixth tones and three minor semitones or of seven tones and two minor semitones. Also, it has ten notes and nine intervals. When it is composed of seven tones and two minor semitones is is called a major tenth, while, when it is composed of sixth tones and three minor semitones, it will be called a minor tenth. The octave joined with the fifth results in a twelfth, which consists of twelve notes and eleven intervals, which correspond to eight tones and three minor semitones, and it is a perfect consonance. The octave joined with the minor or major sixth forms a thirteenth, which consists of thirteen notes and is formed of eight tones and four minor semitones or of nine tones and three minor semitones. [[it will be called major]] When it is composed of eight tones and four minor semitones, it will be called minor, when it is composed of nine tones and three minor semitones, it will be called major, and it is an imperfect consonance. The octave joined to another octave constitutes a fifteenth and it is formed of fifteen notes and fourteen intervals. It is a perfect [[imperfect]] consonance and it is formed of ten tones and four minor semitones. The fifth joined with the minor or major sixth or with the ditone or semiditone, as I said above, constitutes an imperfect consonance. Therefore, musical compositions are woven with these perfect and imperfect intervals. One has to note that, if the number seven notes is added to intervals that are per se perfect or imperfect, the resulting interval will be the same that existed before the addition, whether it was perfect or imperfect. In fact, if three sevens the result is twenty-four, and thus ad infinitum. If seven is added to the sixth, the result is thirteen and, if another seven is added, the result is twenty-seven, [-f.27v-] and so on ad infinitum. The same will also happen in the case of perfect intervals. In fact, if we add a fifth to the seventh, the result is the twelfth, which corresponds to the octave and the fifth. If another seventh is added the result will be the nineteenth, which corresponds to the fifteenth and a fifth. However, if a seventh is added to the octave, the result will be a fifteenth, or bisdiapason, to which if another seventh is added, the result will be the twenty-second, which corresponds to the trisdiapason. If then one adds another seventh to it, the result is a twenty-ninth, which corresponds to the span of four octaves, and thus ad infinitum. Also, albeit composers do not observe all the rules, nevertheless most agree that the composition must start and ffnish witha perfect interval and that two consonances of the same kind must not be placed one after the other, but they must be separated by an imperfect consonance. One must be particularly careful that the fith or the octave, which are perfect consonances, aswe have states, should not be deprived of their own law, which happens in this way. One of these consonance sconsists of thre tones and a minor semitone and the other one of five tones and two minor semitones. The fifth has thirtyone commata and the octave fifty-three. Now, if the Diapente, or fifth, is created of two tones and two minor semitones, it will consists of just twenty-six comaata, while if the imperfect diapason is created of four tones and three minor semitones, it will consist of forty-eight commata. Therefore, each of these consonances lacks five [-f.28r-] commata. However, the composer should make sure that these perfect consonances are not marred and that they are not created lacking and imperfect. However, permission of masking this fact is granted, if instead of the note which created the semitone with the following one adds and creates another note that produces a tone with the one next to it. This is called false (finta) constitution. Serone. How does this work? I do not understand. Soardo. I shall explain it. Take, for instance, the fifth that from Bemi to effaut. You will see that there are five notes and four intervals. It can be called a fifth, but an imperfect one, because between Bemi and Cefaut there is a minor semitone, from Cefaut to Desolre there is a tone, from desolre to Elami there's another tone and from Elami to effaut there i a minor semitone. Therefore, these note contain two tones and two minor semitones, therefore it will be a consonance, but a deficient and imperfect one. However, if the major semitone is added to the imperfect fifth, the process will be called false constitution, and the fifth, thanks to that addition will become perfect. The same will occur in the case of the octave. In fact, the one established from Bemi to Befabemi Befabemi [Befami ante corr.] will be imperfect, since it does not contain but four tones and three minor semitones. However, if one establishes it from Are to alamire, as it consists of five tones and two minor semitones, it shall be called perfect. Serone. This is correct, but I would like to know how the notes interact with each other and what they have in common with the Elements. Soardo. Listen. The boundaries of the Elements are four and three are the intervals which are the basis of every variation. Thus, three intervals are created by four inotes [-f.28v-] in order that the harmony created by the different combinations of notes occurs therein. The lowest voice, being the lowest, is similar to the earth, because the earth is the lowest and weighty of the four elements. Thus, similarly, the highest voice, since it is the lightest, is similar to fire, while the other two middle ones correspond to the other two Elements. In fact, the voice that is closest to the lowest one is similar to water and the one that approaches the highest voice is similar to air. For this reason, musicians call the highest voice nete and paranete the one next to it, while they call the lowest hypate and the one immediately above it parhypate. We shall call them soprano, bass, tenor, et contralto. Musicians use these voices, which emulate the variety of the Elements, because they suit the ear, with this rule, that, if soprano and tenor in unison, the bass must be at the octave or at the tenth or at the twelfth under the tenor according to the will of the composer. If it is at the octave, the contralto shall be at the fifth; if at the tenth, the contralto will be at the octave, and if at the twelfth, the contralto shall be at the tenth or at the octave above the bass. If the tenor and the soprano answer each other at the interval of a major or minor third, the bass must respond to them at the sixth, major or minor, or at the octave, or at the tenth, according to the will of the composer, but not under the tenor. If the composer wants that the bass should answer at the sixth, it will lay the contralto a major or minor third above the bass, while, should the composer make the bass answer at the octave, he shall write the contralto at the fifth, and if the bass [-f.29r-] is written at the tenth, the contralto will lay an octave above the bass. If the tenor and the soprano answer each other at the fifth, the bass shall answer them at the major or minor sixth or at the octave. If it answers at the sixth, the contralto will answer at the major or minor third, while if the bass is at the octave, the contralto shall answer at the major or minor tenth. If the tenor and the soprano sound together a major or minor sixth, the bass shall form a major or minor third, or a fifth or a major or minor tenth under the tenor at the composer's choice, who, if he decides to write the bass at a major or minor third, will make the contralto answer at the fifth. If he decides to write the bass at the interval of a major or minor tenth with the tenor, then the contralto will answer at the octave or at the twelfth above the bass. If the tenor and the soprano answer each other at the octave, the bass must be written in such a way that it answers to both at the major or minor third, or with a fifth, an octave, or with a major or minor tenth under the tenor. If the bass is written in such a way that it answers with a major or minor third, the contralto will be a fifth above the bass, while, if the bass is at a fifth, the contralto will be at the octave, and if the bass is at the octave, the contralto will be at the major or minor third or at the twelfth. However, [-f.29v-] if the bass is at a major or minor tenth, the contralto will be an octave above the bass. If the tenor and the soprano are at the interval of a twelfth, the bass will answer the tenor at the lower major or minor sixth, or at the major or minor third, the contralto will answer at the major or minor third, or at the twelfth above the bass. Conversely, if the bass forms a major or minor third, the contralto shall form a fifth, and, if the bass answers at the octave, the contralto shall answer at the fifth or twelfth above the bass. If the tenor and the soprano form a full or incomplete thirteenth, the bass shall reply at the major or minor third, at the fifth or at the octave under the tenor. If the bass answers at the major or minor third, the contralto shall answer at the octave above the bass, but if the bass forms a fifth, the contralto shall form an octave, and, if the bass forms an octave, the contralto shall form a thirteenth, complete or incomplete above the bass. If the tenor is at the fifteenth with the bass, the bass shall answer at the major or minor third, or at the fifth or at the octave below the tenor. If the bass answers at the major or minor third, the contralto will reply at the major or minor tenth above the bass. If the bass answers at the fifth, the contralto shall answer at the fifteenth, while, if the bass answers at the octave, the contralto shall answer at the major or minor seventeenth above the bass. Serone. It is a beautiful exposition, but I heard from Messer Alfonso della viola, who is equally miraculous in counterpoint and composition as he is in playing the viola da gamba in a consort, that the imperfect species of consonances, which [-f.30r-] are the third and the sixth, since they are varied by their own nature and they are called major and minor, in whichever way one composes, one has to place them correctly and vary them methodically. This will be done every time that, moving from an imperfect to a perfect consonance, one shall constitute the species that is closest to the perfect consonance, as one can see in the notes of this example. [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 30r ] You can see that the first notes create a minor sixth that is closer to the octave than to the unison. The other major sixth proceed in the same way, therefore, if one does the opposite the result sounds wrong, what do you say? Soardo. Think that the art of counterpoint, although the compositions are varied, it is a finite arte, since its laws are not arbitrary and variable, but shared and well known. So, although the styles and varieties of compositions are infinite, nevertheless, the art of counterpoint is similar to other arts whose precepts are finite, shared and limited, while their parts progress ad infinitum. For this reason Franchino says that the rules of counterpoint are eight. The first one states that the beginning of any composition must be a perfect consonance, for instance, an unison, octave, a fifteenth, or even a fifth or a twelfth, which, although they are not perfect consonances, nevertheless they are called perfect because of their [- f.30v-] sweetness and resonance. It is true that this first precept is not necessary but arbitrary, because perfection in all things is not allotted to the beginning, but to the end, and for this reason many started to begin their composition with an imperfect consonance. The second rule sates that two perfect species of the same kind such as two unisons, two octaves, two fifteenth, and also two fifths or two twelfths, which, although they are not perfect, as it was said, nevertheless because of their sweetness, they are numbered among the perfect ones) cannot occur in musical compositions one after the other and both ascending or descending at the same time. This rule is not arbitrary, but legally binding, and it admits no exception. The third rule sates that an imperfect [perfect ante corr.] consonance, such as a third or a sixth, must be interspersed between two perfect consonances of the same kind, whether they move by similar or different motions and regardless if they are high-pitched or lowpitched. Conversely, many imperfect consonances (whether of similar or different kinds, as, for instance, two, tree or four thirds and one or more sixths) can be placed successfully between two perfect consonances of the same kind. The fourth rule states that one can write a counterpoint with several perfect but different consonances either ascending or descending, such as the fifth after the unison or after the octave and the octave after the fifth, and the others in a similar way. The fifth rule is that two perfect consonances of the same kind can be used in counterpoint one after the other and adjacently, as long as they progress by different and contrary motion, as, for instance, if, of two octaves, the first one is more intense and lays in the high register and the second one is more relaxed and low, and the same occurs when they present themselves in the opposite order. The same occurs in the case of two fifths of which the first one occurs on the beat [-f.31r-] and the second off the beat, and the other way round. The sixth rule states that the parts of a piece written in counterpoint, namely, the tenor, soprano and contralto, must move by contrary motion against each other. If the soprano rises, the tenor must descend and vice versa. The contralto has to progress in a similar way with one or the other of these parts. However, this rule is arbitrary because very often the notes of the tenor follow the notes of the soprano ascending or descending with similar motions. The same occurs in the case of the contralto, and this happens when the parts of the piece progress imitatively in respect of each other with the same motions and note values. The same rule states that, when we want to move from an imperfect consonance to a perfect one to conclude a piece or a musically significant part of it, it is necessary that the different parts independently move to reach the closest perfect consonance. For instance, if the tenor and the soprano sound the major sixth, which is the fifth with the addition of a tone, then both of them progress by contrary motion (the tenor descends one note and the soprano, similarly, ascends of another note) and they immediately convene to form an octave, which, if one considers the contrary motion, is the closest to the sixth itself. The motion to the octave is specific of the major sixth, while the minor sixth tends to move to the fifth, but with a single movement, namely, while one part of the composition is held and the other moves. It can also move to the octave by contrary motion. Straight away, as the first contrary motion takes place, where one of the parts rises and the other one falls, they move on to a fifth, as it can be shown in this example. [-f.31v-] [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 31v] Now (Franchino says) you can see that the soprano and the tenor form a major third in the first notes and flow to the unison with their second notes. From the fourth note, which sounds a minor third they converge to a fifth, which is a semibreve, moving by contrary motion. From the fifth to the sixth note the tenor is held and the interval changes to a minor sixth through a single movement of the soprano. From this to the seventh note, thanks only to the movement of the soprano, while the tenor is held, the interval changes to a fifth. On the eighth note, which is a semibreve, the soprano rises a note (while the tenor is held) and produces a minor sixth. Therefore, if the two voices moving by contrary motion do not exceed (either of them) the interval of a tone and move in opposite direction one from the other, they render the ninth semibreve an octave, which is the closest perfect interval to the sixth. Also, from the eleventh semibreve, which moves similarly from the sixth to the aequisonant octave on the twelfth semibreve by contrary motion. The same process must be observed in the other ones. The eighth and last rule states that every composition must be concluded and terminated in a perfect consonance, such as an octave or a fifteenth, because the conclusion, according to the Philosophers, corresponds to the perfection and completion in everything. Hence, one can see that [-f.32r-] the composer is not obliged to move from from an imperfect consonance to a perfect one through the perfect consonance closest to it, but the composer is obliged to move from an imperfect consonance to the perfect one closest to it, as you can note from the example. Therefore, it cannot be said that who relies and follows the precepts of these rules is an impostor and a false composer. Serone. It is true, but you cannot deny that our ears do not like more that way of writing, although it is not imposed on us as a rule, than this one, which is based on the same rules. Consider this example and you will see that this is true. [-f.32v-] [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 32r] Here you can see how the movement from the minor tenth to the octave is more resonant. The contralto has to descend three notes while the bass is held and forms a major tenth, which is a major semitone further removed than the minor one, and the same occurs in the others. Soardo. It is true, and I cannot deny that I do not like very much certain details of these rules but I approve of them as a whole. Serone. Which parts do you like? Soardo. I like the fact that in the motion from the sixth to the octave and from the tenth to the same octave, one has to move through major consonances, as in this example: [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 32v, 1] I also approve that, in the passage from the tenth to the octave by contrary motion, namely, when the top part descends by a note and the lower part ascends by a note, one has to move with one of the parts through a minor tenth, as in this example: [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 32v, 2] However, in the seventh or octave tone, since there is no fa in Elami, nor it can be altered, as it would ruin the species of the tone, the tenths and the sixth will be built in a different way, as it is shown in the notes of the following passage. [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 32v , 3] [-f.33r-] You can see that it would be very wrong if one moved from to minor tenth to the octave by contrary motion of the bass and of the contralto, because it would be necessary to alter a fa, which would entail taking away a major semitone from the note of the contralto,which cannot be done. The same can be observed in the first sixth of this example, which( since it is major and since the contralto descends one step while the bass is held) arrives to the fifth. Therefore, I am convinced, and let this be said with no offence to Messer Adriano Villart, Messer Alfonso and of the others, that the rules regarding the major and minor sixth and thirds are arbitrary and not legally binding and embracing Aristotele's saying: 'Plato is a friend, Socrates is a friend, but truth is a closer friend'. Serone. I approve of what you do and I believe that this is what one needs to do. However, I would also like to know what similarities and differences the third and the sixth have with each other. Soardo. I will tell you. The first imperfect consonances of the simple scale, namely the third and the sixth within the octave, appear to be formed through the motes of other notes. In fact, if we place two notes both at the distance of an octave, if the soprano falls by a sixth, immediately the third will be placed above the tenor. Equally, if the tenor will sound an octave with the soprano and it is raised by a sixth, it will form a minor or a major third with the soprano, according to the Diatonic and Natural progression of the tones. Moreover, if the soprano of the octave is lowered by a major or minor third, it will decay immediately into a minor or major six. Similarly, when the tenor sounds the octave below the soprano, if it rises by a third, it will form a sixth with the soprano. However, one must be aware that, if the species or the consonance through whose rise or descent the other is created is major, the one produced [-f.33v-] the shall be minor. For instance, if the minor third is produced by the tenor in ascending or by the soprano in descending, the sixth shall be minor, and vice versa, because in the perfect octave there are only five tones and two minor semitones. Hence, one can see that in the disposition of said octave the third is created easily by the motion of the sixth, and the sixth is completed by the third, since both have the same nature and property, as well as the imperfection. However, since the third combines aptly with the unison and the fifth, as it has been proven, turns out to be sweeter than the sixth, which, although is attracted specifically to the octave and to the fifth, nevertheless does not move towards both of them by contrary motions. Moreover, the sixth partakes more of the fifth than of the octave. In fact, since there is no other note between the fifth and the sixth, the sixth is closer and adjacent to said fifth than to the octave, which is separate from the sixth by two notes. Now, since the seventh is placed between the sixth and the eight, the sixth is further away from the octave than from the fifth. Therefore, it partakes more of the nature of the fifth, which is a lot less perfect than the octave. Therefore, since it partakes of the nature of the fifth, it acquires a more imperfect sonority than the one of the third, which shares the perfection of the fifth and of the unison, as it is the middle note between the extremes. In fact, it is known that it moves with first and stricter impetus by contrary motion towards the fifth and the unison, which shares simply the same perfection of the octave, as one can gather from this example. [-f.34r-] [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 34r] Therefore the sixth and the third, although they are of the same species have the similarities and differences between them that you have seen. Serone. I am satisfied with this explanation, but tell me something of the nature and property of the fourth. Soardo. Let us do so. The fourth, as I said, is represented by the sesquitertia proportion and consists of two tones and a minor semitone. Moreover, since these these four notes united together are dissonant, it is allowed only in two circumstances in the counterpoint. The first one is when the tenor and the soprano sound the octave. In that case the contralto has to be placed a fifth above the tenor. As the fifth is composed of three tones and a minor semitone, it will sound a fourth below the soprano. Thus, placed between the tenor and the soprano, since it is placed harmonically, it will sound very consonant. The other instance is when the tenor and the soprano progress at the interval of a sixth. In this case the voice between them, which is the contralto, will sound the fourth below the soprano, which will be a third above the tenor. These are the only two instances in which it is consonant. It is still matter of discussion if the fourth consisting of three tones is consonant or dissonant. To this I reply and say that, just as it is allowed that the fifth (which is represented by the sesquialtera proportion and consists of three tones and a minor semitone) be formed of two tones and two minor semitones, thus it must also be allowed that the fourth should be allowed to consist of three tones, but in this way: [-f.34v-] [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 34v] You can see that the penultimate minim of the tenor in the first example forms a fifth with the contralto, because it is composed of five notes, but it does not fit its proportion, as it is lacking an apotome, can be allowed according to the writers who dealt with this issue, because it is not on the downbeat clashing with other parts, but it is located off the beat. Again, in the second example, the penultimate minim of the contralto forms a fourth with the tenor, because it is at the distance of four notes, but it is not in its regular proportion, since it exceeds it by the amount of one apotome. Serone. To tell you the truth, I liked very much his fourth built in this way, but I did not trust myself in believing that it could be accepted, until many experts have reassured me. Now I am completely sure of it, and from now on I shall hold my ear in greater consideration, since you have reassured me of it even further, after you have taught me yesterday about the theory of music, and today about its practice so well and authoritatively. Soardo. I am not convinced of this [-f.35r-] to such great an extent, but I can say without boasting and rising above my station that I spoke appropriately because [[it will be of little use to others in any way]], since, when somebody discusses a subject with truth and reality, that subject discussed is good in itself and well ordered, it can be said that who discusses it and explains it does so with good reason. However, let this discourse remain between us, please, since it will be of little use to others, anyway. Serone. Tell me the reason. Soardo. The reason consists in the fact that, since music is one of the mathematical disciplines which are all based on true and certain rules all of whom belong to the first and highest degree of certainty, those of profess these disciplines know them all in the same way. Therefore, I say that our conversation will not be fruitful for those who do not know about music and to those who have a different understanding of it. In fact, the first category of these, should they want to learn about music, will approach the original lively springs of this knowledge, such as Boethius, Ptolemy and Signor Andrea Matteo d’Acquaviva Duke of Atri, Franchino, while I am sure that the second category of those will persist in their obstinate views. Serone. I realise this and, for this reason our discourse will cause delight not only to those who are experts of these matters, but it will be useful and fruitful for those who are not. It hall bring satisfaction to the former because, just as those who are not accomplished envy those that are, thus these, who are learned, not only have sympathy for those who have not achieved perfection in these matters, but they also delight in those who have. [-f.35v-] Our discourse will be fruitful to those who are not learned in this field because they will be able to learn more easily from it, being written in our own language, all the information that it is necessary to collect and to learn about this discipline and that it is derived those Greek and Latin books. This is way, anyway, I want to have someone write it down. Soardo. Please, do not do it, but, should you want to do it, at least do not reveal my name at any cost, will you? Serone. Leave this to me. In fact, being as fond of you as I am, I will be able to make an effort this time in order to fulfil your wish, as to what I am going to do in this matter, taking into consideration of my feelings, even if you do not like me much, Soardo. I have great respect for you, but... Serone. No buts. Leave this to me, I say, and that is all. Soardo. Well, do as you please and take care. In fact, it is already dinner time. Serone. Go and be happy, and remember to send me my viol, will you not? Soardo. I shall do that. THE END.
Title: Dialogues on music, Second Dialogue
Original Title: Dialoghi della Musica, Dialogo Secondo
Source: Florence, Biblioteca del Conservatorio ‘Luigi Cherubini’, MS B3797, f.25r-35v
[-f.25r-] Dialogue Second part. [-f.25v-] On practice SERONE,. I waited for you here for two long hours. Where do you come from so full of excitement and marvel? Soardo. From the house of the most divine Signora Donna Giouanna of Aragon. Serone. Now I stop marvelling at your marvelling. Soardo. Why? Serone. Because Signora donna Giouanna and divine Signora donna Vittoria Colonna, her daughter, were created by nature as a marvel for the world. Soardo. It is so, but my wonder is caused by something else. Serone. What is it? Soardo. By the music that I heard in that very house. Serone. Is it possible that, as you are not blind and were in presence of such sight that you were able to operate the other senses? Soardo. On the contrary, it is entirely possible, because those ladies attracted by such harmony were so intent on their music, that they appeared transformed, more, they became transfigured into the music itself. Serone. Wonderful. Who were the musicians and what sort of music was it? Soardo. The musicians were Messer Giovanlonardo dell'Harpa, from Naples, Messer Perino from Florence, Messer Battista, from Sicily and Messer Giaches from Ferrara. Serone. I have heard all of them seveal times and it is certain that, in my opinion, each of them is the greatest player of their own instrument. Soardo. You tell the truth. The singers were Signor Giulio Cesare Brancazzo, Signor Francesco Bisballe, count di Briatico, Messer Scipione del Palla et someone else who sang the soprano part and whom I did not like very much, but who was bearable because the other voices were so good. Serone. There is no doubt that it must have been a beautiful and such that was never heard before because the three who you have mentioned to me are the most accomplished musicians and their singing is miraculously good. Soardo. There is no argument about that. Serone. Are you allowed to say who the soprano [-f.26r-] was? Soardo. No, I am sorry. Suffice to say that I did not like him, because there are few musicians who sing accompanied by instruments, as far as I heard them, that have pleased me completely. Serone. Why? Soardo. Because they are all deficient in something, whether it be intonation, pronunciation, singing itself, ornamentation or in softening and increasing the volume of the voice according to the necessity to do so. These are skills that are partly innate and partly the result of study and artistic application. Serone. If you consider them thus, you will find nobody you like. Soardo. On the contrary, I would, but I like the good ones, and, since it is not right to praise who makes mistakes erra, thus it would be also unjust not to praise those who deserve it. Serone. Would you have liked Signora Vittoria Fagiola, who shunned the world and abandoned it for heaven to sing with the angels? Soardo. Of course, I liked her very much indeed, and Signora Donna Maria di Cardona, marquess of the Padula, who is such a clear example of every virtue in our age, while the former was in her service, loved her as it were her daughter for no other reason but to become familiar and close to the good customs and suave voice of that young woman, the like of whom has never been heard again since. Serone. Did you like any others? Soardo. Another two, but do let us leave these aside and let us return to yesterday's topic of discussion. Serone. It will be best to do so. Soardo. You must know that we must consider four sorts of intervals in any composition. Two of them are called perfect and two are called imperfect. The fifth and the octave are the perfect ones while the third and the sixth are the imperfect ones. The third can be minor or major. [-f.26r-] When it is minor it is called semiditone, because it consists of two tones. For instance, from gammaut to Bemi there are two tones, hence it will be a major third. From bemi to dsolre there is a tone and a minor semitone, hence it shall be called a minor third. The fifth is formed from these two imperfect intervals, because from gammaut to dsolre there are five notes and four intervals, which contain three tones and a minor semitone, and bemi, which is the note in the centre of the fifth, is in common between the ditone and the semiditone. If another note is added to this, the sixth will be formed, as it contains six notes and five intervals. If it contains four tones and a minor semitone, it will be called major sixth, [it constitutes a sixth because it contains six notes and five intervals, it will be called major sixth, but, the intervals are three tones and tow minor semitones, it will be called minor sixth, and if two notes are added to it, the octave will be created, which, although it is the most in marg.] and, if two other intervals are added to it, the octave shall be created, which, although it is the most perfect of the consonances, nevertheless, if it is joined with an imperfect one, the whole result will be an imperfect interval, but, if it is joined with a fifth or another octave, the result will be called a perfect consonance. Similarly, if the fifth is joined with the minor third, the result will not be a perfect consonance, but, if it is joined with a perfect one, it will be. Serone. Can you clarify which compounded consonances are perfect and which ones are imperfect? [-f.27r-] più chiaro? Soardo. I will. The octave joined with the ditone or with the semiditone is a tenth, and it is an imperfect consonance, which can consist of sixth tones and three minor semitones or of seven tones and two minor semitones. Also, it has ten notes and nine intervals. When it is composed of seven tones and two minor semitones is is called a major tenth, while, when it is composed of sixth tones and three minor semitones, it will be called a minor tenth. The octave joined with the fifth results in a twelfth, which consists of twelve notes and eleven intervals, which correspond to eight tones and three minor semitones, and it is a perfect consonance. The octave joined with the minor or major sixth forms a thirteenth, which consists of thirteen notes and is formed of eight tones and four minor semitones or of nine tones and three minor semitones. [[it will be called major]] When it is composed of eight tones and four minor semitones, it will be called minor, when it is composed of nine tones and three minor semitones, it will be called major, and it is an imperfect consonance. The octave joined to another octave constitutes a fifteenth and it is formed of fifteen notes and fourteen intervals. It is a perfect [[imperfect]] consonance and it is formed of ten tones and four minor semitones. The fifth joined with the minor or major sixth or with the ditone or semiditone, as I said above, constitutes an imperfect consonance. Therefore, musical compositions are woven with these perfect and imperfect intervals. One has to note that, if the number seven notes is added to intervals that are per se perfect or imperfect, the resulting interval will be the same that existed before the addition, whether it was perfect or imperfect. In fact, if three sevens the result is twenty-four, and thus ad infinitum. If seven is added to the sixth, the result is thirteen and, if another seven is added, the result is twenty-seven, [-f.27v-] and so on ad infinitum. The same will also happen in the case of perfect intervals. In fact, if we add a fifth to the seventh, the result is the twelfth, which corresponds to the octave and the fifth. If another seventh is added the result will be the nineteenth, which corresponds to the fifteenth and a fifth. However, if a seventh is added to the octave, the result will be a fifteenth, or bisdiapason, to which if another seventh is added, the result will be the twenty-second, which corresponds to the trisdiapason. If then one adds another seventh to it, the result is a twenty-ninth, which corresponds to the span of four octaves, and thus ad infinitum. Also, albeit composers do not observe all the rules, nevertheless most agree that the composition must start and ffnish witha perfect interval and that two consonances of the same kind must not be placed one after the other, but they must be separated by an imperfect consonance. One must be particularly careful that the fith or the octave, which are perfect consonances, aswe have states, should not be deprived of their own law, which happens in this way. One of these consonance sconsists of thre tones and a minor semitone and the other one of five tones and two minor semitones. The fifth has thirtyone commata and the octave fifty-three. Now, if the Diapente, or fifth, is created of two tones and two minor semitones, it will consists of just twenty-six comaata, while if the imperfect diapason is created of four tones and three minor semitones, it will consist of forty-eight commata. Therefore, each of these consonances lacks five [-f.28r-] commata. However, the composer should make sure that these perfect consonances are not marred and that they are not created lacking and imperfect. However, permission of masking this fact is granted, if instead of the note which created the semitone with the following one adds and creates another note that produces a tone with the one next to it. This is called false (finta) constitution. Serone. How does this work? I do not understand. Soardo. I shall explain it. Take, for instance, the fifth that from Bemi to effaut. You will see that there are five notes and four intervals. It can be called a fifth, but an imperfect one, because between Bemi and Cefaut there is a minor semitone, from Cefaut to Desolre there is a tone, from desolre to Elami there's another tone and from Elami to effaut there i a minor semitone. Therefore, these note contain two tones and two minor semitones, therefore it will be a consonance, but a deficient and imperfect one. However, if the major semitone is added to the imperfect fifth, the process will be called false constitution, and the fifth, thanks to that addition will become perfect. The same will occur in the case of the octave. In fact, the one established from Bemi to Befabemi Befabemi [Befami ante corr.] will be imperfect, since it does not contain but four tones and three minor semitones. However, if one establishes it from Are to alamire, as it consists of five tones and two minor semitones, it shall be called perfect. Serone. This is correct, but I would like to know how the notes interact with each other and what they have in common with the Elements. Soardo. Listen. The boundaries of the Elements are four and three are the intervals which are the basis of every variation. Thus, three intervals are created by four inotes [-f.28v-] in order that the harmony created by the different combinations of notes occurs therein. The lowest voice, being the lowest, is similar to the earth, because the earth is the lowest and weighty of the four elements. Thus, similarly, the highest voice, since it is the lightest, is similar to fire, while the other two middle ones correspond to the other two Elements. In fact, the voice that is closest to the lowest one is similar to water and the one that approaches the highest voice is similar to air. For this reason, musicians call the highest voice nete and paranete the one next to it, while they call the lowest hypate and the one immediately above it parhypate. We shall call them soprano, bass, tenor, et contralto. Musicians use these voices, which emulate the variety of the Elements, because they suit the ear, with this rule, that, if soprano and tenor in unison, the bass must be at the octave or at the tenth or at the twelfth under the tenor according to the will of the composer. If it is at the octave, the contralto shall be at the fifth; if at the tenth, the contralto will be at the octave, and if at the twelfth, the contralto shall be at the tenth or at the octave above the bass. If the tenor and the soprano answer each other at the interval of a major or minor third, the bass must respond to them at the sixth, major or minor, or at the octave, or at the tenth, according to the will of the composer, but not under the tenor. If the composer wants that the bass should answer at the sixth, it will lay the contralto a major or minor third above the bass, while, should the composer make the bass answer at the octave, he shall write the contralto at the fifth, and if the bass [-f.29r-] is written at the tenth, the contralto will lay an octave above the bass. If the tenor and the soprano answer each other at the fifth, the bass shall answer them at the major or minor sixth or at the octave. If it answers at the sixth, the contralto will answer at the major or minor third, while if the bass is at the octave, the contralto shall answer at the major or minor tenth. If the tenor and the soprano sound together a major or minor sixth, the bass shall form a major or minor third, or a fifth or a major or minor tenth under the tenor at the composer's choice, who, if he decides to write the bass at a major or minor third, will make the contralto answer at the fifth. If he decides to write the bass at the interval of a major or minor tenth with the tenor, then the contralto will answer at the octave or at the twelfth above the bass. If the tenor and the soprano answer each other at the octave, the bass must be written in such a way that it answers to both at the major or minor third, or with a fifth, an octave, or with a major or minor tenth under the tenor. If the bass is written in such a way that it answers with a major or minor third, the contralto will be a fifth above the bass, while, if the bass is at a fifth, the contralto will be at the octave, and if the bass is at the octave, the contralto will be at the major or minor third or at the twelfth. However, [-f.29v-] if the bass is at a major or minor tenth, the contralto will be an octave above the bass. If the tenor and the soprano are at the interval of a twelfth, the bass will answer the tenor at the lower major or minor sixth, or at the major or minor third, the contralto will answer at the major or minor third, or at the twelfth above the bass. Conversely, if the bass forms a major or minor third, the contralto shall form a fifth, and, if the bass answers at the octave, the contralto shall answer at the fifth or twelfth above the bass. If the tenor and the soprano form a full or incomplete thirteenth, the bass shall reply at the major or minor third, at the fifth or at the octave under the tenor. If the bass answers at the major or minor third, the contralto shall answer at the octave above the bass, but if the bass forms a fifth, the contralto shall form an octave, and, if the bass forms an octave, the contralto shall form a thirteenth, complete or incomplete above the bass. If the tenor is at the fifteenth with the bass, the bass shall answer at the major or minor third, or at the fifth or at the octave below the tenor. If the bass answers at the major or minor third, the contralto will reply at the major or minor tenth above the bass. If the bass answers at the fifth, the contralto shall answer at the fifteenth, while, if the bass answers at the octave, the contralto shall answer at the major or minor seventeenth above the bass. Serone. It is a beautiful exposition, but I heard from Messer Alfonso della viola, who is equally miraculous in counterpoint and composition as he is in playing the viola da gamba in a consort, that the imperfect species of consonances, which [-f.30r-] are the third and the sixth, since they are varied by their own nature and they are called major and minor, in whichever way one composes, one has to place them correctly and vary them methodically. This will be done every time that, moving from an imperfect to a perfect consonance, one shall constitute the species that is closest to the perfect consonance, as one can see in the notes of this example. [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 30r ] You can see that the first notes create a minor sixth that is closer to the octave than to the unison. The other major sixth proceed in the same way, therefore, if one does the opposite the result sounds wrong, what do you say? Soardo. Think that the art of counterpoint, although the compositions are varied, it is a finite arte, since its laws are not arbitrary and variable, but shared and well known. So, although the styles and varieties of compositions are infinite, nevertheless, the art of counterpoint is similar to other arts whose precepts are finite, shared and limited, while their parts progress ad infinitum. For this reason Franchino says that the rules of counterpoint are eight. The first one states that the beginning of any composition must be a perfect consonance, for instance, an unison, octave, a fifteenth, or even a fifth or a twelfth, which, although they are not perfect consonances, nevertheless they are called perfect because of their [- f.30v-] sweetness and resonance. It is true that this first precept is not necessary but arbitrary, because perfection in all things is not allotted to the beginning, but to the end, and for this reason many started to begin their composition with an imperfect consonance. The second rule sates that two perfect species of the same kind such as two unisons, two octaves, two fifteenth, and also two fifths or two twelfths, which, although they are not perfect, as it was said, nevertheless because of their sweetness, they are numbered among the perfect ones) cannot occur in musical compositions one after the other and both ascending or descending at the same time. This rule is not arbitrary, but legally binding, and it admits no exception. The third rule sates that an imperfect [perfect ante corr.] consonance, such as a third or a sixth, must be interspersed between two perfect consonances of the same kind, whether they move by similar or different motions and regardless if they are high-pitched or lowpitched. Conversely, many imperfect consonances (whether of similar or different kinds, as, for instance, two, tree or four thirds and one or more sixths) can be placed successfully between two perfect consonances of the same kind. The fourth rule states that one can write a counterpoint with several perfect but different consonances either ascending or descending, such as the fifth after the unison or after the octave and the octave after the fifth, and the others in a similar way. The fifth rule is that two perfect consonances of the same kind can be used in counterpoint one after the other and adjacently, as long as they progress by different and contrary motion, as, for instance, if, of two octaves, the first one is more intense and lays in the high register and the second one is more relaxed and low, and the same occurs when they present themselves in the opposite order. The same occurs in the case of two fifths of which the first one occurs on the beat [-f.31r-] and the second off the beat, and the other way round. The sixth rule states that the parts of a piece written in counterpoint, namely, the tenor, soprano and contralto, must move by contrary motion against each other. If the soprano rises, the tenor must descend and vice versa. The contralto has to progress in a similar way with one or the other of these parts. However, this rule is arbitrary because very often the notes of the tenor follow the notes of the soprano ascending or descending with similar motions. The same occurs in the case of the contralto, and this happens when the parts of the piece progress imitatively in respect of each other with the same motions and note values. The same rule states that, when we want to move from an imperfect consonance to a perfect one to conclude a piece or a musically significant part of it, it is necessary that the different parts independently move to reach the closest perfect consonance. For instance, if the tenor and the soprano sound the major sixth, which is the fifth with the addition of a tone, then both of them progress by contrary motion (the tenor descends one note and the soprano, similarly, ascends of another note) and they immediately convene to form an octave, which, if one considers the contrary motion, is the closest to the sixth itself. The motion to the octave is specific of the major sixth, while the minor sixth tends to move to the fifth, but with a single movement, namely, while one part of the composition is held and the other moves. It can also move to the octave by contrary motion. Straight away, as the first contrary motion takes place, where one of the parts rises and the other one falls, they move on to a fifth, as it can be shown in this example. [-f.31v-] [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 31v] Now (Franchino says) you can see that the soprano and the tenor form a major third in the first notes and flow to the unison with their second notes. From the fourth note, which sounds a minor third they converge to a fifth, which is a semibreve, moving by contrary motion. From the fifth to the sixth note the tenor is held and the interval changes to a minor sixth through a single movement of the soprano. From this to the seventh note, thanks only to the movement of the soprano, while the tenor is held, the interval changes to a fifth. On the eighth note, which is a semibreve, the soprano rises a note (while the tenor is held) and produces a minor sixth. Therefore, if the two voices moving by contrary motion do not exceed (either of them) the interval of a tone and move in opposite direction one from the other, they render the ninth semibreve an octave, which is the closest perfect interval to the sixth. Also, from the eleventh semibreve, which moves similarly from the sixth to the aequisonant octave on the twelfth semibreve by contrary motion. The same process must be observed in the other ones. The eighth and last rule states that every composition must be concluded and terminated in a perfect consonance, such as an octave or a fifteenth, because the conclusion, according to the Philosophers, corresponds to the perfection and completion in everything. Hence, one can see that [-f.32r-] the composer is not obliged to move from from an imperfect consonance to a perfect one through the perfect consonance closest to it, but the composer is obliged to move from an imperfect consonance to the perfect one closest to it, as you can note from the example. Therefore, it cannot be said that who relies and follows the precepts of these rules is an impostor and a false composer. Serone. It is true, but you cannot deny that our ears do not like more that way of writing, although it is not imposed on us as a rule, than this one, which is based on the same rules. Consider this example and you will see that this is true. [-f.32v-] [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 32r] Here you can see how the movement from the minor tenth to the octave is more resonant. The contralto has to descend three notes while the bass is held and forms a major tenth, which is a major semitone further removed than the minor one, and the same occurs in the others. Soardo. It is true, and I cannot deny that I do not like very much certain details of these rules but I approve of them as a whole. Serone. Which parts do you like? Soardo. I like the fact that in the motion from the sixth to the octave and from the tenth to the same octave, one has to move through major consonances, as in this example: [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 32v, 1] I also approve that, in the passage from the tenth to the octave by contrary motion, namely, when the top part descends by a note and the lower part ascends by a note, one has to move with one of the parts through a minor tenth, as in this example: [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 32v, 2] However, in the seventh or octave tone, since there is no fa in Elami, nor it can be altered, as it would ruin the species of the tone, the tenths and the sixth will be built in a different way, as it is shown in the notes of the following passage. [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 32v , 3] [-f.33r-] You can see that it would be very wrong if one moved from to minor tenth to the octave by contrary motion of the bass and of the contralto, because it would be necessary to alter a fa, which would entail taking away a major semitone from the note of the contralto,which cannot be done. The same can be observed in the first sixth of this example, which( since it is major and since the contralto descends one step while the bass is held) arrives to the fifth. Therefore, I am convinced, and let this be said with no offence to Messer Adriano Villart, Messer Alfonso and of the others, that the rules regarding the major and minor sixth and thirds are arbitrary and not legally binding and embracing Aristotele's saying: 'Plato is a friend, Socrates is a friend, but truth is a closer friend'. Serone. I approve of what you do and I believe that this is what one needs to do. However, I would also like to know what similarities and differences the third and the sixth have with each other. Soardo. I will tell you. The first imperfect consonances of the simple scale, namely the third and the sixth within the octave, appear to be formed through the motes of other notes. In fact, if we place two notes both at the distance of an octave, if the soprano falls by a sixth, immediately the third will be placed above the tenor. Equally, if the tenor will sound an octave with the soprano and it is raised by a sixth, it will form a minor or a major third with the soprano, according to the Diatonic and Natural progression of the tones. Moreover, if the soprano of the octave is lowered by a major or minor third, it will decay immediately into a minor or major six. Similarly, when the tenor sounds the octave below the soprano, if it rises by a third, it will form a sixth with the soprano. However, one must be aware that, if the species or the consonance through whose rise or descent the other is created is major, the one produced [-f.33v-] the shall be minor. For instance, if the minor third is produced by the tenor in ascending or by the soprano in descending, the sixth shall be minor, and vice versa, because in the perfect octave there are only five tones and two minor semitones. Hence, one can see that in the disposition of said octave the third is created easily by the motion of the sixth, and the sixth is completed by the third, since both have the same nature and property, as well as the imperfection. However, since the third combines aptly with the unison and the fifth, as it has been proven, turns out to be sweeter than the sixth, which, although is attracted specifically to the octave and to the fifth, nevertheless does not move towards both of them by contrary motions. Moreover, the sixth partakes more of the fifth than of the octave. In fact, since there is no other note between the fifth and the sixth, the sixth is closer and adjacent to said fifth than to the octave, which is separate from the sixth by two notes. Now, since the seventh is placed between the sixth and the eight, the sixth is further away from the octave than from the fifth. Therefore, it partakes more of the nature of the fifth, which is a lot less perfect than the octave. Therefore, since it partakes of the nature of the fifth, it acquires a more imperfect sonority than the one of the third, which shares the perfection of the fifth and of the unison, as it is the middle note between the extremes. In fact, it is known that it moves with first and stricter impetus by contrary motion towards the fifth and the unison, which shares simply the same perfection of the octave, as one can gather from this example. [-f.34r-] [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 34r] Therefore the sixth and the third, although they are of the same species have the similarities and differences between them that you have seen. Serone. I am satisfied with this explanation, but tell me something of the nature and property of the fourth. Soardo. Let us do so. The fourth, as I said, is represented by the sesquitertia proportion and consists of two tones and a minor semitone. Moreover, since these these four notes united together are dissonant, it is allowed only in two circumstances in the counterpoint. The first one is when the tenor and the soprano sound the octave. In that case the contralto has to be placed a fifth above the tenor. As the fifth is composed of three tones and a minor semitone, it will sound a fourth below the soprano. Thus, placed between the tenor and the soprano, since it is placed harmonically, it will sound very consonant. The other instance is when the tenor and the soprano progress at the interval of a sixth. In this case the voice between them, which is the contralto, will sound the fourth below the soprano, which will be a third above the tenor. These are the only two instances in which it is consonant. It is still matter of discussion if the fourth consisting of three tones is consonant or dissonant. To this I reply and say that, just as it is allowed that the fifth (which is represented by the sesquialtera proportion and consists of three tones and a minor semitone) be formed of two tones and two minor semitones, thus it must also be allowed that the fourth should be allowed to consist of three tones, but in this way: [-f.34v-] [Dentice, Second Dialogue, 34v] You can see that the penultimate minim of the tenor in the first example forms a fifth with the contralto, because it is composed of five notes, but it does not fit its proportion, as it is lacking an apotome, can be allowed according to the writers who dealt with this issue, because it is not on the downbeat clashing with other parts, but it is located off the beat. Again, in the second example, the penultimate minim of the contralto forms a fourth with the tenor, because it is at the distance of four notes, but it is not in its regular proportion, since it exceeds it by the amount of one apotome. Serone. To tell you the truth, I liked very much his fourth built in this way, but I did not trust myself in believing that it could be accepted, until many experts have reassured me. Now I am completely sure of it, and from now on I shall hold my ear in greater consideration, since you have reassured me of it even further, after you have taught me yesterday about the theory of music, and today about its practice so well and authoritatively. Soardo. I am not convinced of this [-f.35r-] to such great an extent, but I can say without boasting and rising above my station that I spoke appropriately because [[it will be of little use to others in any way]], since, when somebody discusses a subject with truth and reality, that subject discussed is good in itself and well ordered, it can be said that who discusses it and explains it does so with good reason. However, let this discourse remain between us, please, since it will be of little use to others, anyway. Serone. Tell me the reason. Soardo. The reason consists in the fact that, since music is one of the mathematical disciplines which are all based on true and certain rules all of whom belong to the first and highest degree of certainty, those of profess these disciplines know them all in the same way. Therefore, I say that our conversation will not be fruitful for those who do not know about music and to those who have a different understanding of it. In fact, the first category of these, should they want to learn about music, will approach the original lively springs of this knowledge, such as Boethius, Ptolemy and Signor Andrea Matteo d’Acquaviva Duke of Atri, Franchino, while I am sure that the second category of those will persist in their obstinate views. Serone. I realise this and, for this reason our discourse will cause delight not only to those who are experts of these matters, but it will be useful and fruitful for those who are not. It hall bring satisfaction to the former because, just as those who are not accomplished envy those that are, thus these, who are learned, not only have sympathy for those who have not achieved perfection in these matters, but they also delight in those who have. [-f.35v-] Our discourse will be fruitful to those who are not learned in this field because they will be able to learn more easily from it, being written in our own language, all the information that it is necessary to collect and to learn about this discipline and that it is derived those Greek and Latin books. This is way, anyway, I want to have someone write it down. Soardo. Please, do not do it, but, should you want to do it, at least do not reveal my name at any cost, will you? Serone. Leave this to me. In fact, being as fond of you as I am, I will be able to make an effort this time in order to fulfil your wish, as to what I am going to do in this matter, taking into consideration of my feelings, even if you do not like me much, Soardo. I have great respect for you, but... Serone. No buts. Leave this to me, I say, and that is all. Soardo. Well, do as you please and take care. In fact, it is already dinner time. Serone. Go and be happy, and remember to send me my viol, will you not? Soardo. I shall do that. THE END.
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